Just an FYI for everyone: if this mod is active at the same time as Planetary Diversity, it causes an error (infinite empty pop up)

Hey mate just curious if there's any plans to update this?

Love your work and I've been using it for years and the new update has the population of the home planets all messed up (at least for mechanical start, untested on the rest just yet)

Crashes my game for some reason, loading screen gets to 100%, after a few seconds, crashes.

thanks for the information and advice.👍

@Sunconure11 How would MSI get to the Jovian League system if there are no starlane connections? I considered adding variants for Broken Shackles/Payback but that is what made me decide to skip it.

What about an MSI-based variant as an origin?

@Tropigo this might be up your alley: https://steamproxy.net/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963518629

I wrote a lot of the code with Thoth. In fact I am supposed to do an update, oops!

could you add / can you add a version / variation that would be like Syncretic Evolution, but both races are "equal"...? i.e. not Serviles trait.? something similar to Origins Extended mod's Dual evolution...? Otherwise a really great mod!

For a country_event, you can use this as the trigger block:

trigger = {
is_jovian_league = yes
is_eager_explorer_empire = no # no wormhole cuz jump drives
NOT = { has_origin = origin_jovian_league_shroudwalker_apprentice } # they get psionics instead cuz they have a shroud tunnel
}

In my case, less "challenge" and more like... not... un-challenge... yeah, the event sounds like a great idea. Just need to make sure it only fires on Jovian Leagues.

@Liara the aggressive tiered tech costs does sound like it significantly increases the challenge. My suggestion is to apply an event to add bonus progress every so often as long as the tech isn't researched (maybe 1% per year - which would auto-complete in 70 years). That means an empire can focus on some techs in their jovian league system, without completely putting themselves behind.

As for wormholes... I have a mod that makes tech tier costs far more aggressive, putting wormholes solidly out of reach of a fledgling civilisation. You'd have it by midgame at the earliest unless you went for it immediately, which would stunt your progress massively.

Issue is, I'm not sure how to help that while also preserving your intent for the mod...

With regards to mix and match origins, I'd recommend having a chat to the Secondary Origins folks. I'm sure they'll be happy to do something with you.

After some heavy modifications and testing, Origin: Jovian League is ready for 3.7 "Canis Minor" - please report any bugs, especially with the new origin flavors: Knights of the Toxic God, Teachers of the Shroud, and Fear of the Dark - and the new Eager Explorer civics.

@zephramwolf I liked your idea - my plan is to put it over the gas giant like you suggested.

@corsairmarks looking forward to it! I was thinking that the knight hab could go over the planet as both an inversion of the default start (hab over the moon of the planet), and to keep up the possibility of building an orbital ring on the homeworld, but I've barely looking into mod coding so idk how tricky it is or isn't.

Again, looking forward to everything you're doing here, keep up the great work!

Heya wanted to i have made a few origins supported with this. If youre interested I could send the files to you :)

Those sound wonderful, thank you for maintaining this awesome mod!

Hello everyone! I'm working to bring the Jovian League into 3.7 "Canis Minor"

Here are some upcoming changes:
* Support the new "Eager Explorer" civics for early jump drives - your starting system will not have a wormhole, and you will have fewer colonized jovian moons
* Support Origin: Fear of the Dark - 1-2 of your initial jovian moons will belong to the dissenters
* Support Origin: Teachers of the Shroud instead of a wormhole, begin with a Shroud Tunnel to the Shroudwalkers
* Support Origin: Knights of the Toxic God - the Keep will orbit your initial Jovian planet, and all of your moons will be toxic-touched (other special features subject to change)

Both interesting ideas. Being able to use the Teachers of the Shroud origin makes sense because the Teachers can arrive via jump drive. I've added these ideas to my backlog.

Another really cool origin for this to be combined with would be the teachers of the shroud origin

IDK if you're open to requests for more origins to be added to the ones you've adapted here (and great job on those!), but if so, maybe the Knights of the Toxic God? Could have the Knights habitat spawn over the gas giant, and start with one less colonized moon?

@Sidewinder Fang looks like it was an oversight on my part. The habitable planets (regardless of empire type) have a 50/50 chance to generate a Terraforming Candidate modifier - which I meant to only matter when guaranteed colonies were set to 0 or 1. Fixed in version 4.0.2

I'm getting some kind of wierd bug where when I try and play a machine empire I get terraforming candidate modifiers on my habitable planets, despite them already being habitable. This doesn't seem to affect normal empires and doesn't seem to be a mod conflict issue.

@dsecret88 Should be straightforward - I'll have to look at how the game interacts with that origin, but I think I can just call the built-in setup for the "parent" empire directly. I'll add it to my backlog - probably include it when Stellaris 3.5 releases.

I noticed you have a version of the origin for necrophage, Syncreatic evolution, and mechanist. any chance to add one for lost colony? The RP of that seems so cool to me.

This is awesome, really enjoying it so far. If you feel like it I would suggest a Sol version with earth still being habitable and the capital. Might not be balanced, but I would love it. Great work!

My suggestion is to try with only this mod and it's dependency (Planetary Modifier Enhancements) active. If it works with Jason st those, then you'll have to go hunting for other mods that might be overwriting the built-in Sol code. This mod triggers the built-in script for the Sol neighbors.

I do.

@The Destroyer of Worlds do you have other mods active? It is possible something else erases them from being able to spawn. I started a few new games as a test and Alpha Centauri and Procyon spawned each time.

Nope, it doesn’t spawn to me.

Strange, they don’t spawn for me. I’ll check again and see what’s up.

Ok, looks like I failed to include the spawns for Barnard's Star and Sirius. Alpha Centauri and Procyon do correctly spawn as-is: https://www.screencast.com/t/ZseeWKVun

@The Destroyer of Worlds They are supposed to spawn. This mod invokes the same code as the default Sol system (it has a variant that does not make them guaranteed habitable worlds, but does spawn the systems). I'll take a look at it and make sure it's fixed when Stellaris 3.3 "Libra" is released.

For the Jovian League custom Sol system start, it should be imperative that the system spawns with real life systems (Alpha Centauri, Sirius) since, you know, it’s Sol. I don’t see any though, there a way to get these systems are neighbours?

Thank you, this mod is brilliant

@doctornull Thanks for the heads up! I'm (slowly) working through my mod collection and getting updates ready based on the 3.3 beta

Hey, just FYI this origin technically works in the 3.3 beta, but the sprawl penalty for starting with 4 colonies is just awful, and it gets worse from there.

@doctornull Devious, I like it.

Yeah good point, because it's a threat NPC it doesn't need the map generation tricks you're doing to get the Jovian League systems to work.

Maybe hide the threat(s) behind another "pull the lever" wormhole creation event.

I do like the idea of a secret threat emerging from behind a wormhole. You could probably build a fun midgame crisis on top of the origin, @doctornull. Don't need to give the mini-crisis the origin - you can spawn any initializer with script a long as it isn't number-limited - and I made sure these ones are not. Scripting them to "awaken" like the Marauders do and spawning fleet would make them a more reliably threatening NPC.

@dostillevi I'll consider boosting it foe the AI. They need help to get not trapped.

I just tried Voor Technocracy as a Jovian Mechanist and they did well. So that tracks with what you saw.

The Jovian Syncretic did okay -- broke out and expanded a bit, but not nearly as successful as the Mechanist.

The Jovian DE and Jovian Necrophage FP did not do well. Maybe it's only the genocidal NPCs who do poorly?

If that's the case then I'll just make Jovian MegaCorps and so on instead of "threat" NPCs.

I could see giving the AI the full wormhole stabilization tech at start. That way they don't randomly fail to research it and get stuck, or get behind because they had to research it first before other techs (which a human can better prioritize). If you want some chance of delay in the AI acquiring wormhole tech, maybe set it to be 1 point of research short of completion so once they pick it, they have it immediately.

@doctornull - I have't designed the origin to intentionally favor the player or AI - but I'm not surprised it's harder for the AI to play. It involves a lot of resource micromanagement (not strictly intended - just emergent gameplay) and the AI has a hard time with that, since it paint in broad strokes. What difficulty level do you normally play?

In my most recent game, a Mechanists empire is ranked 3rd in galactic power (behind me and a Necrophage Criminal Heritage empire. They have had good success in securing their local empire space, subjugating a rival, and expanding through wormholes before other empires were anywhere close to the tech.

Alright, I'm going to start a new game with the updated mod. Thank you for the improvements!

One suggestion for future work: could you do something nice for NPC empires which get a Jovian League origin? Some kind of mid-game boost to help them break out and become a threat? When I put the Determined Exterminator machine empire in a Jovian League system, it's nowhere near as threatening as it was normally, which is the opposite of what I'd expect -- the machine empire should have a ton of good expansion options, and that should give it a strong foundation from which to break out and destroy its neighbors.

If the origin is balanced for the player, would it be possible to have events un-balance it for NPCs to make them more of a threat?

What I have is a heuristic at best.

... and it's too long for a comment. So now it's a Discussion topic.

@doctornull if you know of good algorithms for doing those sort of spanning checks, but without using any kind or array or collection, I'd appreciate links where I can read code/pseudo code (any code language is fine). I am planning to work on the fix, but I've had a busy time at work recently.

Couple others:

https://i.imgur.com/TgYULld.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/h2MnIBV.jpg

Honestly I don't mind the nexus wormhole case, it may be ugly but at least the galaxy will not be broken. There are some heuristics you could use if you want to avoid the most ugly pathological case (center-of-cluster home system), like marking neighbors to some fixed depth which catches most clusters at depth 3, but I'll take a galaxy which isn't broken.

@doctornull the trick there is that we have no ability to create custom collections/arrays. The spanning algorithms I know generally need collections to store things. There's a few ways to kinda fake it with tags or fake leaders with variables. However that's more code than I want to write - versus doing the easier way of either connecting systems to the "exit" system, or making a sort of "nexus wormhole"

Thinking about spanning trees, if you just treat the neighbors as the full tree -- just ensure connectivity between all of them -- then you'll get a spanning tree with relatively few computations.

Even just checking depth 3 with respect to the exit wormhole system could save you from making a cluster-center start look like a spiderweb.