Heroes of Hammerwatch

Heroes of Hammerwatch

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Long Term Balance Supplement
   
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Type: Mod
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19 Aug, 2023 @ 1:24pm
20 Aug, 2023 @ 1:35pm
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Long Term Balance Supplement

Description
This mod attempts to extend long term playability of the game by changing how some elements scale. The goal is to keep the game from becoming either impossible or too easy at higher NPG levels and thereby maintain fun and challenge. The biggest culprit for making the game too easy at high ngp is blood rite stacking. Therefor, many of these changes involve blood rites. On the other hand, without blood rite stacking, the game quickly becomes impossible due to compounding armor and resist penalities. The idea here is to offload some of the things that blood rite stacking used to do to arena, which is a well developed, but underutilized, system (in my opinion). Since most people use blood rites to build up their armor and reistance, this mod focuses on these elements. I’m still playtesting this mod, and the game will probably still be broken at high power levels, so I expect to have to make more changes later.

This mod is included in Clever Merge Mod and many of the other mods in the merge mod complement the features of this mod.

What’s included:
Blood Altars/Blood Rites:
- Blood rite stacking has been limited. Whether an altar appears (or can be used) is determined by how many rites you currently have active and the NGP level of the current run. No altars appear on NG0. The first altars will appear on NG1 if you have no rites currently active. A second rite cannot be added until NG3 or higher, and then every odd NGP after adds another to the max number of rites. If you die and lose your rites, then altars will start appearing at lower NGP levels as appropriate to your current number of rites. It’s still possible to build up large numbers of blood rites, but now they are more spread out.
- The NGP scaling element of blood rites has been removed. Each blood rite now only adds its base bonus with no increase for NGP. It’s still possible to get levels of armor and resistance from blood rites that far outstrip NGP penalities, but now you have to keep adding rites for that to happen rather than coasting on their NGP bonuses.
- Blood altar rewards are now determined at the start of a run, rather than when an altar is activated.
on the other hand...
- When you die, you lose only 3 blood rites at random rather than all of them. The other problem with blood rites is that a high level character cannot be allowed to die because they are unable to handle their current NGP level without their blood rites, and restoring a huge stack of rites after a death takes way too long. This aims to reduce some of that pressure.

To balance these nerfs...
Arena:
- Price scaling for purchasing stat bonuses from swords has been reduced from linear to an exponent of 0.77. This should make costs of spending swords much much more affordable at high levels. (This growth rate also now matchs the growth in the NGP penalty to armor and resist.)
- Swords spent on armor and resist now give 0.75 points rather then 0.5
- Note that the Bauble Shop mod has an augment that gives 10 extra arena swords per level of the augment to all members of your guild.
-Remember that Bauble Shop also has ways to increase your gold gain and your tax midpoint to help you afford to spend all of those swords.

So, I guess the strategy now is to get a few blood rites while adding to armor and resistance using arena swords and class titles. As before, the armor/res penalities are very steep at first, but then level off. You can try to get through the steep part by using attuned items which are then double attuned using Enhanced Attunements. If you can survive to NG15 or so, I believe that the resist bonuses just from swords and class titles will be enough to cover the NGP penalities. Later for armor.
10 Comments
Averath 9 Dec, 2023 @ 2:27pm 
I just had a thought, though I am not sure if it is possible. Ultimately it depends on how you feel regarding it, but if you prefer the RNG aspect to bloodrites and wouldn't want to give players the choice to choose, as that could potentially be powerful... Would it be possible to just inform players of which one has rolled?

The reason I am somewhat passionate about bloodrite RNG is that they're the only thing in the game that does not tell you what you're going to get, while also giving you a penalty associated with it. With every other random thing in the game, you can make a choice regarding if you want to use it or not, in addition to them all being purely beneficial.

So at least knowing what I'd rolled, rather than being able to choose what I want, feels better than just rolling the dice and potentially being kicked in the face for no benefit.
Averath 7 Dec, 2023 @ 11:35pm 
Oh, that's an interesting use case for the Barbarian's class title bonus.

But yeah, I was thinking something like each upgrade gives +0.5% or +1% or something. So it'd go from 10% to 9.9%, then 9.8, 9.7, 9.65, 9.6, etc... Or something along those lines.

And while this is a personal suggestion, I'd love to seen an option to enable something to let me choose which blood rite I get, rather than leaving it up to RNG. The only reason I'd really suggest it for blood rites is because of the penalty associated with them.

Due to the change above where blood altar rewards are determined at the start of a run, I could still see myself creating a duplicate profile, using the blood altar, and if it is something I do not want, I'd just reload to the original profile and ignore it. Which... isn't exactly fun.

I can understand some people loving that RNG, but for a player like me, it's basically torture. :P
CleverUsername  [author] 7 Dec, 2023 @ 11:23pm 
That would certainly be possible. Right now, in my own play, I use the Barbarian mod class which gives bonus hp as a class title bonus to help defray some of the blood rite hp cost... but it is a good idea for an augment insofar as it does not duplicate the effect of a bonus you could get from somewhere else.
Averath 7 Dec, 2023 @ 11:15pm 
That is a good point. Though I did just have an idea that ties into another mod of yours:

Perhaps a bauble upgrade for your guild that reduces the bloodrite HP penalty by a certain percentage, so while it may still be a flat amount, you can actively invest into essentially giving yourself more HP. I'm not sure of how the exact numbers would work, but I imagine it could be done so that you never completely remove the HP penalty, but you can make it smaller as time goes on.
CleverUsername  [author] 7 Dec, 2023 @ 11:11pm 
Problem with the scaling is that it quickly exceeds the armor and resistance penalties from NG+. So, your armor and res end up going *up* when you increase NG+. And without you ever needing to do anything else to increase them. The game gets easier the further you get and it makes items and class bonuses irrelevant.
Averath 7 Dec, 2023 @ 11:04pm 
One thing I was considering suggesting, but wasn't sure about, is putting more of the emphasis toward scaling. Instead of giving a flat 25, maybe give a flag 5 or 10 and retain the +2 per NG. So if you had 10 Immortal at NG+10, you'd normally have 250 + 200 for a total of 450.

Using 5 +2 as an example, you'd have 50 + 200, for a total of 250. Which is essentially what you'd have right now. (Well, for NG+10, at least.) But you'd continue to get a scaling bonus as you increased NGs further.

NG+50 would be: 250 + 1000 normally, or 50 + 1000 using the example above. If that feels too high, you could dabble with the initial value and the scaling to reach what you feel would be balanced. A spreadsheet could make it easy to test different initial values and different scaling methods.

I imagine that they're still useful, but the cost scaling while the benefit doesn't feels wrong to me.
CleverUsername  [author] 7 Dec, 2023 @ 10:19pm 
Like add just a flat HP penalty rather than a percent? Maybe...

I do find the altars still very useful when I play. One or two armor or resistance rites can cover much of the penalty caused by advancing NGs
Averath 7 Dec, 2023 @ 1:55pm 
I feel as if there's one big oversight on this rebalance. You've placed a lot of limitations on bloodrites and stripped them of a lot of their power, but not really done anything to compensate for their detriments.

As it is, I'm skeptical that bloodrites will be anywhere near worth the cost of 10% of your HP without the ability to scale. That isn't to say that you should reintroduce scaling, but rather reevaluate the HP cost for bloodrites.

Seeing as the bonuses do not scale, but the penalties sure as heck scale, I feel that that's something that should warrant some attention. I'm not sure how to address the issue, though.
Aderyn 25 Aug, 2023 @ 3:37am 
Really like the sound of this, one of the biggest frustrations I have is the blood rites save scumming being the way to progress. Which in multiplayer we don't have the patience for. Saw this got updated recently and tried, however I am getting a broken screen with clouds showing when I add the mod. I assume some compatibility issues with other mods sadly.
Muffinwatch 19 Aug, 2023 @ 8:31pm 
Nice I like the idea behind this