Kenshi
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No Cut Efficiency
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16 Jul, 2019 @ 1:40am
5 Mar, 2020 @ 11:17pm
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No Cut Efficiency

Description
This is a mod that removes cut efficiency and applies that value towards cut resistance instead.

Let me tell you about Kenshi's cut efficiency. In theory, it's a nifty idea to have a certain percent of resisted cut damage to be converted to blunt damage instead. However, the execution is just ridiculous. You immediately take the blunt damage regardless of all subsequent layers of armor protecting that area. This results in absurd, backwards scenarios where wearing lower quality armor (or even none) can be superior to more layers of armor.

Here is an example:

Pretend you take a 100 cut damage hit to the right leg. You are wearing (all Masterwork) a Dustcoat, Samurai Legplates, and Samurai Boots. The Dustcoat has 60% coverage, meaning a 60% chance of blocking damage. If it does, you block 26 cut damage (44% Cut Resist * 60% Cut Efficiency) and you take an immediate 18 direct blunt damage (44 resisted - 26 blocked = 18 damage from inefficiency) from cut efficiency regardless of any other protection. The remaining 56 goes to the next layer. The Legplates have 100% chance to block 40 damage, take an immediate 5 damage (thanks efficiency), and the remaining 11 go to the next layer. The Boots have 100% efficiency, so you have a 40% chance to block 9 of 11 damage. So in total you take 25 or 34 damage.

Now if you TAKE OFF the Dustcoat (or the 40% chance it MISSES it), if you REMOVE that extra layer of protection, the Legplates receive all 100 damage. You block 73, take an immediate 8 damage (efficiency), and the remaining 19 goes to Boots. 40% chance the Boots will block 15 of 19 damage. In total, you take 12 or 27 damage.

Because of this backwards, awful efficiency system, you reduce more damage by striping off a Masterwork layer of protection than keeping it on. Even worse, wearing a PROTOTYPE Dustcoat reduces more damage than a Masterwork thanks to this system (take less direct damage from cut efficiency, more damage mitigated by Legplates).

This illogical system frustrated me to the point of making this mod. What it does is instead applies the efficiency value towards cut resistance, so a Dustcoat with 44% cut resist, 60% cut efficiency will instead have 26% cut resist (44% * 0.6). Using the previous example as a reference, the Dustcoat still blocks 26 cut damage but now all of the remaining 74 (56+18) goes onto the next layer. No immediate direct damage ignoring all other armor. No dumb "More protection is worse protection" absurd scenarios.

That's it. There are no other special tweaks or adjustments to give a player advantages or disadvantages. Just removing cut efficiency and adjusting cut resistance to account for it.

****

"Does this make the game easier or harder? What else is affected?"

This is a common question that deserves a fully detailed explanation. Various posters over the years have brought different things to light, so I'll try to give the most complete explanation that I can. In short, it's both.

  • Layered armor is stronger.
    This is the most obvious difference, and probably the main reason to consider using this mod. By damage not magically ignoring all subsequent layers, anyone wearing more layers will take less damage. This includes you and NPCs. But a caveat:

  • Most enemies don't wear layered armor.
    While the player will almost always use layered armor, many NPCs aren't wearing layered armor. Many of the stronger ones are, like Holy Lord Phoenix or the Five Invincibles, but most are not. Once you have your armors flushed out, this can result in your team being more resiliant against enemies who are not.

  • Early game is harder.
    In the vanilla game, CE is converting a portion of cut damage into blunt. Blunt damage is safe and heals on its own. Cut damage deteriorates, which is fatal. With this mod, the damage you take from cut, like knives or animals, always stays cut, so being KO'd is more deadly. It is easier for you to die-die to cut damage - and same for enemies.

  • Ranged Damage and Harpoon Resistance is not the same as vanilla.
    Unfortunately, ranged damage in this game doesn't work like other damages. Harpoon Resistance (HR) flat out subtracts ranged damage, not reducing it by percent, and then calcs efficiency damage from the subtracted amount. You would always take some amount of ranged damage in vanilla, even against the worst bows and while wearing the best armor (that has CE). Although I can adjust HR to account for this efficiency damage, that only matches vanilla if a ranged attack exceeds the HR. Without CE, any ranged damage below the HR value is subtracted to 0. This is to your advantage, but it's also true that well-armored enemies will also have your ranged damage reduced to 0 against weaker bows.

  • Armor Penetration doesn't affect efficiency damage in vanilla.
    As a result, removing CE means attacks with AP don't exactly match vanilla. In short: this mod will make targets slightly more resistant against +APs and slightly less against -APs compared to vanilla.

  • Harder to hit the damage reduction cap with negative Armor Penetration.
    Armors in Kenshi have a damage reduction cap at 90% Resistance. Weapons with a -AP penalty like the Katana can exploit this to avoid their penalty. For example, [MW] Crab Armour has 90% CR already, so a katana has no penalty against it. By lowering CR to account for no CE, it is harder for -AP weapons to reach and exploit the damage cap, resulting in dealing less damage to high CR armors. Having the penalty matter again can be good or bad depending on your perspective. It certainly makes high-end heavy armor stronger even as a single layer, and both it and the katana's penalty are doing what you would expect.

In true spirit of Efficiency's silliness, because of the two AP points mentioned above, in vanilla a Katana deals more damage to [Masterwork] Samurai Armour than it does to [Specialist] even with a single layer. In example,

-(Vanilla) 100 cut damage (with -30%AP), [SP] Sam Armour's Cut Resistance is increased from 70% to 90% cap (70%*1.3=91%), pass 10 damage to next layer, take 7 damage from efficiency (70%*(1-0.9)=7). Total of 17 damage.

-(Vanilla) [MW] CR is increased 81% to 90% cap, pass 10 damage to next layer, take 8 damage from CE (81%*(1-0.9)=8). Total of 18 damage.

-(Mod) [SP] CR is increased from 63% to 82%, pass 18 damage to next layer. Total of 18 damage.

-(Mod) [MW] CR is increased from 73% to 90% cap, pass 10 damage to next layer. Total of 10 damage.

As you can see, no longer avoiding the AP penalty completely makes [MW] Sam Armour reduce more damage compared to vanilla even with a single layer, but it is better than [SP] Sam Armour, as anyone would expect.

"Why not just have the converted cut-to-blunt damage pass to the next layer instead of removing Cut Efficiency entirely?"

The reason is because I can't. So far as I'm aware, modders have no access to the game's formulas or calculations. This mod is a workaround that still passes the damage to the next layer but without converting it to blunt. It is an imperfect solution, but that's all I can do with the FCS toolset. Only the dev could change the actual calculation to pass the converted blunt on.

"What about armors introduced by other mods?"

This mod does not alter a single non-vanilla armor. However, there are so many NCE mods made for other armor mods I couldn't list them all if I wanted to. If you search, there's a good chance you'll find one for a mod you want. If there isn't one yet, I've made a guide in the pinned discussions that shows you how to make one yourself if you want.

Compatibility:

This mod edits "cut def bonus" and "cut into stun" values for every piece of armor with cut efficiency. If you have another mod that edits those values, place the one you prefer below it in your load order. It does not modify any armors outside of the vanilla game.

Enjoy.
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227 Comments
stun 21 Jul @ 3:21pm 
>There are no other special tweaks or adjustments to give a player advantages or disadvantages
>In short, it's both.
Meanwhile, the mod strictly just gives the player a huge buff at no penalty purely to assuage the fact that the author is afraid of math more difficult than simple multiplication

Also "harder to hit the cap with negative armor pen" is the most ridiculous nonsense ever put to print. You literally can't even get the cap because armor has cut efficiency. Pretending that only one layer of armor exists when the entire purpose of the mod is to let you stack layers and be invulnerable, which specifically is most effective against negative armor pen where the bad cut efficiency of underlayers is supposed to have the most impact. And truly, the player so often finds themself having masterwork samurai armor but no access to shirts, what a sensible comparison.
Lyston  [author] 9 Jul @ 7:58pm 
Man, we're just going in circles. Yes, the damage goes down in that one very niche example of the best heavy armors against the weapon with worst anti-armor penalty because armor is actually working instead of being ignored (ignored by cap in this case, instead of ignored by layers). Yes, it's different from vanilla or developer intentions, because this mod changes vanilla. In vanilla, the same example from you is [MW] magically taking more damage than [SP] for both crab and samurai. Even if the main purpose of NCE didn't exist, that reason alone is still enough for me to want this mod over vanilla.

Better quality armor taking more damage than lower quality armor is dumb to me in any scenario. If you're a fan of that, by all means, don't use the mod. We have different desires on how a game should be played, which is what mods are all about. Pick what you like, ignore what you don't. But my man, you've been coming here to complain about a mod you don't like for over a year now.
FrankieWuzHere 8 Jul @ 6:46pm 
@Lyston I stand corrected on the AP comment about AP doing less damage with your mod. So it's more OP than I thought. And as for the negative armour pen point, hitting 90% is very easy with your mod so unless you are wearing crappy armour I still stand by my point that you take less damage. Going from 19 damage (Crab Armour) to 10 or 18.25 (Samurai Armour) to 10 is a massive drop. (Also to add that it's cut damage which means super OP for Skeletons who repair it at 250x normal healing speed)

Don't think you can really say it's a "problem". It's the way the resistance was made. It's why cut resist isn't like blunt resist. Armour is supposed to mitigate cut damage a ton but with reduced effectiveness for each piece that is used.

All I really got from this is that in one instance of a very low cut eff item (And only one item) you take very slightly more damage and at all qualities for AP you take less. Then at higher qualities you take almost half damage from negative AP.
Hyouhaku 4 Jul @ 6:06pm 
I quite like the fact that this mod is the closest thing to a nerf to bows mod. Ranged characters don't have a "attack slot", so they can shoot a volley at will. Dust bandits can easily stun lock someone with toothpicks

Besides the cheese of bleeding/kiting vs stronger foes and the absurdity that badly made arrows from a nerf gun can pierce high quality armor. It is bad that Harpoons take a nerf tho, but it is what it is, One thing i found to fix this issue is putting the game in a x2 damage, so you can pierce harpoon resistences and still do ranged damage with high-end weapons and even toothpick against badly armored opponents.
Lyston  [author] 3 Jul @ 10:35pm 
2/2

"Also your AP comment is wrong."
Not for single layer. Taking a generic armor that has 50% CR and 50% CE in vanilla, and 25% CR with NCE

Vanilla
30% AP: 50%->35% CR. Take 65 cut + 25 stun = 90 damage.
-30% AP: 50->65% CR. Take 35 + 25 = 60.
NCE
30% AP: 25%->17.5% CR. Take 82.5 (8.33% more resistant).
-30% AP: 25%->32.5% CR. Take 67.5 (12.5% less resistant).

If layered, stun from +AP gets COMPOUNDED across layers (stun off unmodified total, but passes modified remainder to next, which does the same), so a target takes a lot more vanilla over NCE (because it's compounding the very problem NCE was made for), while -AP stun gets diminished and the value of vanilla and NCE gets closer to identical. With 2 layers of that generic armor,

Vanilla
30%: 100->65->42 damage, +25 +16 stun = 83
-30%: 100->35->12 damage, +25 +9 stun = 46
NCE
30%: 100->83->68 damage
-30%: 100->67.5->45.5 damage

50% CE is the most extreme example; higher CE has smaller difference with +AP.
Lyston  [author] 3 Jul @ 10:31pm 
1/2

Ah, there is a mistake. Since it's been like 4 months since the last time you poked me about this, I forget what I did wrong - if I took NCE SP crab armor CR for vanilla crab armor, or maybe I was looking at samurai armor but still had crab armor in my head. In any case, it is true of samurai armor. I'll correct that.

"I'd argue it's a massive change "
It's also the single only massive change, because it's the only example that still uses the exception of exploiting armor capping in [SP]. It doesn't represent every other armor in the game or even all the lower tiers of that same armor. With [High], vanilla takes 20.7+6.1=26.8, NCE takes 28.6. Without hitting the cap, it's not a massive change with AP. Even then, if vanilla [High] takes 27 and [SP] takes 18, what would you _expect_ [MW] should take as an improvement over [SP]? Certainly not 19. But we've been over that enough I think.
FrankieWuzHere 3 Jul @ 12:53pm 
Also your comment, "In short: this mod will make targets slightly more resistant against +APs and slightly less against -APs compared to vanilla." is wrong. Unless you messed up your values AP weapons should do the same exact damage as before if using one armour piece, or they do less if using multiple armour pieces. And I'd argue going from 17.8/19 damage to 10 is a massive change so it's not *slightly more resistant*.
FrankieWuzHere 3 Jul @ 12:53pm 
"-(Mod) [SP] CR is increased from 63% to 82%, pass 18 damage to next layer. Total of 18 damage."

-Your mod changes the cut def bonus from 0.1 to 0... That means at Specialist quality it has 70% Cut resist. 70 x 1.3 = 91. As 90% is the cap the result is 10 cut damage with your mod.


"-(Mod) [MW] CR is increased from 81% to 90% cap, pass 10 damage to next layer. Total of 10 damage."

-Your MW Crab Armour has 81.25% cut resist but yes 10 damage is the total just like with the specialist one. With your mod with both qualities you take a little more than half of normal damage for just one armour piece.
FrankieWuzHere 3 Jul @ 12:53pm 
Heads up btw in your examples...

"-(Vanilla) 100 cut damage (with -30%AP), [SP] Crab Armour's Cut Resistance is increased from 70% to 90% cap (70%*1.3=91%), pass 10 damage to next layer, take 7 damage from efficiency (70%*(1-0.9)=7). Total of 17 damage."

-SP Crab Armour has 78% CR. So it would be 17.8 damage base game.


"-(Vanilla) [MW] Crab Armour's CR stays at 90% cap, pass 10 damage to next layer, take 9 damage from CE (90%*(1-0.9)=9). Total of 19 damage."

-19 damage is correct.
FrankieWuzHere 3 Jul @ 12:41pm 
@adamaxis It's not really an issue. It's how it was made to work. Armour mitigates cut damage a lot more than blunt damage but as a trade off stacking armour has diminishing returns.