Total War: WARHAMMER III

Total War: WARHAMMER III

The Phoenix Court (High Elf Politics)
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Alshua  [developer] 24 Mar, 2024 @ 7:15am
Balance & Bugs
Opening up a thread to use for whatever sort of gameplay feedback you might have that might need a longer character limit. Whether you found a bug or you have balance feedback, it can be easier to discuss here than in the comments.

Let us know, especially, how the Grandeur pacing was for you, and how often Intrigue Dilemmas were triggering.
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Showing 1-15 of 26 comments
KsH 26 Mar, 2024 @ 2:20am 
Likely I have a script break, but I do not know where. I have the option to confederate normally all of a sudden around turn 30, I think I have only had 1 dilemma as well (the one about the greatest phoenix king?) I have also not had any legendary lord refugee events (example: Cothique Aislinn and Teclis have both been defeated) Otherwise everything seems to be working fine.

Possible incompatibilities (my guess):
Immortal Empires expanded
Legendary Lore
Expanded Intrigue
Convoys of the New world
Community bugfix mod
Recruit defeated legendary lords
Console Commands tool
Last edited by KsH; 26 Mar, 2024 @ 1:31pm
Alshua  [developer] 27 Mar, 2024 @ 8:15pm 
Thank you for your report. From your description, the only thing that seems wrong with your Phoenix Court is that you can confederate Ten Kingdoms factions.

(You do mean those factions, right? Confederating any High Elf faction that does NOT have a throne, including the Ulthuan-based Saphery and Caledor, is allowed.)

We do rarely get reports of being able to diplomatically confederate when it is not intended, but we haven't narrowed the cause, so we appreciate the information. It is definitely possible that rather than a script break, something is just switching it back on rather than "breaking" the mod per se, especially since the Court still works.

Unfortunately, the rare Court Intrigue dilemmas is a known issue, present in the vanilla games generated dilemmas as well. I managed to get them a LITTLE more frequent, and one in thirty turns is unusually unlucky, but it's not impossible. It is my top priority for the next release to find some workaround, because there is a lot of content players are not seeing much, and it makes it kind of pointless to add more.

Note that the Court Intrigue dilemmas are not triggered by a custom script, and so are unlikely to cause or be affected by a script break.

Without clearer evidence I would tend to assume Phoenix Court is not causing your Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords problem. Since they have obvious overlap I've tested with RDLL active many times and have seen its dilemmas trigger reliably.

To summarize and try to offer some shred of actual advice: I would refocus your diagnosis on Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords. Consider turning on Context Viewer in settings during this process so you will see a big red X in the top right when there's a script break. Also consider uploading your script log to the Modding Den discord. And for now, just pretend you can't diplomatically confederate Eataine. :sweat:
KsH 27 Mar, 2024 @ 11:12pm 
My pleasure.

1. I do mean the 10 kingdoms factions, right around turn 30 (estimate) they turned back on, but were not active at campaign start, its possible they came on earlier and I just did not notice.

2. Good to know about rare intrigue dilemma's, I will play on and see. Just to be clear, the event about the party where you are asked who the greatest Phoenix King was (with Aenarion being the boring answer etc.) is one of yours correct? I haven't played vanilla High Elves in some time ...

3. To clarify, RDLL is working fine, but I thought there was an event to take in the refugees of defeated 10 Kingdom Factions with legendary lords. In both the case of Cothique and Teclis I delayed for 25 turns to see if the Phoenix Court event would fire, but it did not. Thats why I thought perhaps delaying broke that event as well.

4. Thank you for the advice about the Context Viewer, I will turn that on.

cheers
Last edited by KsH; 27 Mar, 2024 @ 11:13pm
Alshua  [developer] 28 Mar, 2024 @ 12:39am 
2) Yes, that's from Phoenix Court!

3) Ah ha. In Phoenix Court, that event must be earned by claiming the faction's throne. It ensures that if a faction is wiped out, there remains an incentive to use the tower. Unlike the three sturdy factions of Chaos Dwarfs, many of the Ten Kingdoms get wiped out pretty quickly (Chrace often by turn 3). So it's designed under the assumption that the faction may or may not exist by the time you can get their Throne.
Last edited by Alshua; 28 Mar, 2024 @ 1:47am
KsH 28 Mar, 2024 @ 1:28am 
Got it, thanks.
KsH 30 Mar, 2024 @ 10:03pm 
Not script breaks according to Context Viewer. Still only one Intrigue event at turn 50. Could the events from "Convoys of the Old World" interfere? I get those events constantly, can you get both Phoenix Court and another dilemma from Convoys in the same turn?
Alshua  [developer] 30 Mar, 2024 @ 10:23pm 
What faction are you? Fifty is definitely abnormal.

The event system is kind of a black box. I have been experimenting with it, but since it's randomized, it is VERY grueling to do any testing. I do have a hypothesis that events do affect one another's frequency in some way, but it's not confirmed. I have not examined Convoys though.
KsH 31 Mar, 2024 @ 8:01pm 
I am Nagarythe. I have stopped sending convoys out to see if there is an anecdotal change in frequency.
KsH 1 Apr, 2024 @ 3:49am 
Well, as you said there seems to be little rhyme or reason. I put on hold sending new convoys, and three turns later I got my second Intrigue dilemma. I thought, this is it! Then I started sending convoys again, and two turns later I got both a convoy event and another court event in the same turn, so who knows if there is a relationship.

To sum-up, 1 intrigue even in the first 50 turns, then 2 between 50-55 ....
DarkSerpin 9 Apr, 2024 @ 9:45pm 
your window does not close with esc. Is it possible to change this?
LemurKing 19 Apr, 2024 @ 6:22pm 
Imrik seems to have increased cost reductions for The White Tower - at tier 1, those cost 82 as opposed to 85 for Council of Nobles, while they should both be 85 due to his -15% cost.
Holidae 19 Apr, 2024 @ 9:28pm 
The button in the lower right to access the Court UI disappeared in my Avelorn campaign. It happened within 10-15 turns ago from my most recent auto-save. I can't roll back to a previous save to find out exactly when it happened.

The part of the UI in the top that displays how much Grandeur I have is also missing. I still have some of it's effects from certain seats active.

Any idea what could cause it to disappear?
Alshua  [developer] 19 Apr, 2024 @ 11:24pm 
@KsH - Yeah, that's my experience when testing. It's frustrating because if I make a change and then test and the events trigger more often or less often, it's hard to know if it's luck. It's clearly too infrequent though. I have some workaround ideas but I hope it gets patched on CA's end in some way, too.

@DarkSerpin - This is slightly trickier than you'd think, but we're going to explore it for the next patch, as I agree it would be a nice quality of life feature.

@LemurKing - Imrik starts the game with a fire mage, who is sometimes randomly assigned one of the Traits that I have given an additional political effect. It was convenient that many of the most underpowered High Elf Traits made a lot of sense as politically-relevant traits. It's likely your fire mage is politically savvy.

@Holidae - Another mod has caused a script break, where a script is unable to be run as written and so the game gets stuck on that and stops running some scripts, which are necessary for Phoenix Court. I'm sorry to say that given the particulars of your situation it may not be possible to fix, as generally I would be advising you to try to find the offending mod and then load from a save that works. Script breaks tend to be noticeable very quickly with Phoenix Court, but if it makes you feel any better, it probably would have caused you a problem later either way, so Phoenix Court is serving as a canary in a coal mine for you.

Script diagnostics is possible but can be beginner-unfriendly. One option for the future could be to enable the Context Viewer. In the Options menu, you click the icon with gears, then on the far right, check the Context Viewer box. You then should see a large red X appear near the minimap (usually...) if a script break occurs, allowing you to stop immediately and try to recover.
Holidae 20 Apr, 2024 @ 5:05am 
I appreciate the information, thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll do as you suggest to try and find the conflict.
LordTheo675 15 May, 2024 @ 8:17pm 
Hi, first off I would like to thank you for a great job. But lately I have been having an issue. The Phoenix court button has been missing from my games (loads or new). I have tried to reinstal the mod and dissabled every other mods to test if it was a compatibility problem but it doesn't seem like it is. Since I am quite a noob in the modding community I seek help because I cannot live without this mod. Thanks in advance.
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