The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

Reworked Tainted Lazarus
Tw1ntend0 16 May, 2021 @ 2:17am
Suggestion for a Jacob and Esau rework
So you probably would do this anyways and have your own ideas, given Jacob and Esau are probably the second biggest pain in the a**. Regardless I felt like making a suggestion in case it inspires you, I have no modding experience.

Basically, being insta-killed when either one of the brother dies is the worst feeling in the world. SO, let's have that not be the case. Let's have it so that if one brother dies, the other may live one :)
This needs to be balanced however, otherwise you may as well just kill one brother super early in order to play the run as the other safe and sound. To do this, you'd have to mess around with the stats:
My suggestion is that if one brother dies, the other will have his stats halved AND the one that is alive will gain a certain percentage of the dead one's stats (based off the chapter in which you died). i.e. Esau dies → Jabob’s stats are halved → Jacob now adds a percentage of Esau’s stats at the time of death to his.
My suggestion for the percentage of stats that are transferred are:
Chapter 1: 0% taken from dead character - stats for alive character at 25% of when both characters were alive.
Chapter 2: 20% taken from dead character - stats for alive character at 35% of when both characters were alive.
Chapter 3: 40% taken from dead character - stats for alive character at 45% of when both characters were alive.
Chapter 4: 60% taken from dead character - stats for alive character at 55% of when both characters were alive.
Chapter 5 and beyond: 100% taken from dead character - stats for alive character at 75% of when both characters were alive.

Naturally this might need some balancing, I'm not entirely sure how this would feel in game, but I did try my best to make it fair. Does three things:
- Makes it so that the meta play isn't to just give all the good items to one character while the other has all the useless things. While still possible for confident players, others should opt for balance so that in the eventuality of death, you're character that's alive isn't neutered.
- Makes it so that surviving as long as possible with both characters can be rewarding for the player, while still ultimately a loss if death does occur.
- Makes it so that death isn't unnecessarily punishing, so the characters are fun and have more unique gameplay considerations.

Anyways that's my suggestion. Sorry for the long writing, it's a somewhat hard idea to explain. I hope you'll make a rework of any kind to Jacob and Esau tbh whether it's my idea or not, cause they're in desperate need of an injection of fun :)
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
DamageMaximo 20 May, 2021 @ 1:13am 
I like this idea
Tw1ntend0 20 May, 2021 @ 1:20am 
If it is unbalanced health could absolutely be another good way to balance things.
I'd say to do this you'd probably want to give the character that is alive a certain number of broken hearts once again dependent on the chapter of death:
Chapter 1: Alive Character gains 10 Broken Hearts (or maybe 8)
Chapter 2: Alive Character gains 8 Broken Hearts (or maybe 6)
Chapter 3: Alive Character gains 5 Broken Hearts (or maybe 4)
Chapter 4: Alive Character gains 3 Broken Hearts (or maybe 2)
Chapter 5 and beyond: Alive Character gains 1 Broken Heart

The (or maybe #) is just a separate suggestion if I overtuned it a little.

Again, just an idea to use at your leisure, or not :)
shenanigans  [developer] 24 May, 2021 @ 3:02am 
Both ideas are interesting, but I personally like J&E and feel like it'd be a bit strange to effectively have an option to get rid of the entire gimmick of the character after one dies, it'd be a lot like having an extra life that changes your character to one that's weaker depending on how early you trigger it. It would be a sizable buff, since the early floors are generally OK to do with two characters, while the ones later on start having layouts with traps that make damage really hard to avoid for J&E, so I could see it consistently being triggered sometime after Depths (if at all).

I kind of want to focus on making some new content mods after adding some more features to the Lazarus mod, so I'm not sure if I'll end up doing anything for J&E anything soon (could happen, though). If anything, one thing I'd really like to give them is an active item that allows you to hide one of the characters for the room it's used in, resulting in slightly reduced firepower but only needing to handle one hitbox for the bosses/rooms where two results in guaranteed/almost guaranteed damage.
Tw1ntend0 24 May, 2021 @ 9:49am 
Thx for the reply :)
I totally get it, I hate reworks that completely change the nature of what made the character interesting in the first place, which is why I think the only way to implement a change such as the one I suggested it would really only be through punishing means.

Your idea sounds brilliant tho! A simple but ultimately effective change. I wish you all the best with whatever content you do make :)
Last edited by Tw1ntend0; 13 Jun, 2021 @ 7:54am
Wild Big Bear 6 Sep, 2021 @ 10:01pm 
How about putting the dual object pedestal co-op mechanics on bosses?
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