Space Engineers

Space Engineers

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Max Altitude and Weight Limit Formulation for your ship
By mar3usmc
After gathering the necessary data after the update the following formulas will determine if your ship will fly, hover, or fall, at specific altitudes for a given mass.

If you don't want to read all of the explaination, below are the final solutions,

For determining how much mass your ship can carry use this formula: (T/(%*g))*(1-(A/10000))) is equal to or greater than M

T is your total up thrust
A is your true altitude (not given in game, and not the same from the distance to the ground)
M is the total mass of your ship, including cargo
%*g is your current percent value of g, and g = 10m/s/s in this game world. i.e. % is the number, percent in decimal form, in front of g in game. i.e. 1.00 g, 0.65 g, 0.34 g. i.e. Multiply that number by g (10m/s/s)
NOTE: True earth value is ~9.8m/s/s at sea level

For determining how high your ship can fly it is just a rearrangement of the above formula: A = (1-(M*%*g)/(T))*10000

Now if you want to understand how to get the above formulas, read below. If not, it's ok, enjoy being able determine ahead of time what you need to lift a certain load.
   
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Formulation of Max Weight, and Altitude Limits
After gathering the necessary data after the update the following formulas will determine if your ship will fly, hover, or fall, at specific altitudes for a given mass.

If you don't want to read all of the explaination, below are the final solutions,

For determining how much mass your ship can carry use this formula: (T/(%*g))*(1-(A/10000))) is equal to or greater than M

T is your total up thrust
A is your true altitude (not given in game, and not the same from the distance to the ground)
M is the total mass of your ship, including cargo
%*g is your current percent value of g, and g = 10m/s/s in this game world. i.e. % is the number, percent in decimal form, in front of g in game. i.e. 1.00 g, 0.65 g, 0.34 g. i.e. Multiply that number by g (10m/s/s)
NOTE: True earth value is ~9.8m/s/s at sea level


For determining how high your ship can fly it is just a rearrangement of the above formula: A = (1-(M*%*g)/(T))*10000

Now if you want to understand how to get the above formulas, read below. If not, it's ok, enjoy being able determine ahead of time what you need to lift a certain load.

FIRST, you need to know at what ALTITUDE you plan on hovering at. This is very important. Unfortunately, Keen does not give you a true altimeter, but just a system that tells you how far you are from the ORIGINAL ground. Even if you did a giant hole in the ground, the detection system, thus far, will still only give you the original distance from the ground before the hole. This is important, as it makes it difficult to determine at any given time what your true altitude is, and therefore, what your thrusters can currently handle.

Taking note of what I just stated, I gathered data for the maximum thrust I could achieve with the Large Atmospheric Thrusters at different distances from the ground. It was a linear relationship. It was so linear in fact that I could determine that by starting distance from the ground was approximately 1000 meter above sea level.

Given that with the update a large atmospheric thruster should have 408 KN of thrust at sea level I was able to determine the percent decrease in thrust per 100 meter of elevation. So, for every 100m up you go your thrusters will lose 1% of max thrust power. So basically at 10000m your atmospheric thrusters will no longer function at all.

From this, now we can truly determine whether your ship will hover.

The final formula for determining your ability to fly,hover, or fall is the following.

T*(1-(A/10000)) is equal to or greater than M*%*g,

Where T is your total up thrust at sea level, A is your current altitude, M is the total mass of your ship including cargo, and g is 10m/s/s is this world. I say %*g because you may be at a much lower value of g, say if you are on the moon. So, as the formula states, if your thrust at a specific altitude is greater than or equal to the mass of your ship, including cargo, multiplied by the current percent value of g, then your ship will hover and not fall.

Also, a little extra info for those of you who actually read the explaination. When determining whether or not your ship can handle a full cargo you need only 2 values. If you are hauling components, the multiply the total cargo hold volume by 6.7Kg/L, which is the density of steel plates. They are the most heavy component per volume. If you plan on hauling ore, multiply instead by 2.7Kg/L. All ore weighs the same. Remember that grinders, welders, and drills have a medium cargo hold value of 3375L, and you should add them to your total value. Also connectors and possibly your cockpit. Remember, you want to also be able to lift up your cargo, and not fall too quickly when dropping down to land. I suggest, at the minimum, a safety margin for your thrust of 1.5. i.e. you have an extra 50% thrust on top of what you need to carry your load.
45 Comments
Shep 10 Dec, 2015 @ 11:33am 
#FIVE stars!!
Kriegsmarine Königstiger 7 Dec, 2015 @ 12:15pm 
yea i must agree
mar3usmc  [author] 7 Dec, 2015 @ 12:04pm 
Yes, I understand why the way it works sounds convoluted, complicated, and rediculous. It is because it IS ridiculous, and it doesn't work like this at all in the real world. While the mathematics of the real world are more complicated, pressure and temperature differentials, the idea about how it works is far more simple and understandable.
Kriegsmarine Königstiger 7 Dec, 2015 @ 11:26am 
unclear got face stuck in thruster


xD i dont know this stuff yet xD
Kohkelxon 6 Dec, 2015 @ 1:29am 
Thanks for the explanations, I believe I (at least mostly) get what you are saying here :) Also, I realized I was using thrust numbers in kN rather than N, and I was not getting nearly enough thrust compared to the ship mass no matter how I tried calculating it :)
mar3usmc  [author] 5 Dec, 2015 @ 4:06pm 
@Kohkelxon

1. "m/s/s" is the unit of the measurement of acceleration. g is an acceleration, and in this game it has a value of 10 (m/s/s). In order to get the weight of the ship you multiply the mass of the ship by the acceleration due to gravity it is feeling. Thus, your calculation when on the surface of the planet would be 10000kg*10m/s/s = 100000N.

Around the world people say they weight x amount of kg, and this is wrong. They have a MASS of x amount of kg, and they weight x(kg)*9.8(m/s/s).

2. m/s/s is just another way of writing m/(s^2). It is indeed second multiplying second again, but in the denominator. You may not be possible thinking of it in the correct way. "per" refers to something in the denominator, not a multiplication exactly, although it could be. Think of it this way, (Velocity)/s = m/s/s = m/(s^2)
Kohkelxon 5 Dec, 2015 @ 3:16pm 
Alright. Two further questions;

1. In practice, the "m/s/s" is not actually a part of the formula that I need to use, if I understand correctly? So for example making that calculation using the earth-like planet's gravity and a ship with 10000kg mass would in practice be "10000 * 1", right?

2. If by "m/s/s" you mean "m/s^2", then it's wrong, because "something squared" means "something times itself", doesn't it? Rather than "something divided by something".
Or come to think of it, this might actually be a difference in the way it's represented in the English language from the one I am accustomed to. In Finnish "per" does not equal "times" as far as I know, although I'm no mathematician :)
mar3usmc  [author] 5 Dec, 2015 @ 1:20pm 
Also, for the most part, % = 1.00, while on planets, and is really only needed to be known when dealing with with altitudes above 6km or 7km I believe. This is when it starts to decrease in game.
mar3usmc  [author] 5 Dec, 2015 @ 1:17pm 
@Kohkelxon

2. The real earth value is presented to prevent the spread of ignorance and misinformation. You do not need to know it for anything dealing with the game.
mar3usmc  [author] 5 Dec, 2015 @ 1:15pm 
@Kohkelxon

Hey Koh, thanks for keeping your questions organized and concise.

1. When dealing with acceleration the basic units of measurement look like (m/s^2), which reads either "meters per second squared" or "meters per second per second". When I write "m/s/s" it is the same as writing "m/(s^2)", but is faster to type the former rather than the latter. Now, as to the meaning, the best and most concise way for me to explain acceleration is the following,

You are driving at 10m/s, that is a speed. Now, you press the gas pedal down further and begin to accelerate at 10m/s/s. Thus, after 9 seconds of acceleration, you will be driving 100m/s.

10m/s + (10m/s/s)*(9s) = 100m/s (notice how one of the seconds in the denominator of the acceleration will cancel the unit of second of time in the numerator, and result in your answer being in m/s?)