Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

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Population and Manpower Guide for Newly Nomadic Players [+Bonus Section]
By Warlordnipple
This describes the mechanics behind Population and Manpower for the Nomads. The guide shows in detail where all the numbers come from and what increases or decreases the gain of Population and Manpower. Bonus Section: Clan Mechanics Explained!
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I. Introduction
This is a very detailed guide explaining every number in the equations for population and manpower. If you just want the basics of how to increase these skip to Section IV. The following equations maybe a little to much for some people who just want to play the game, but understanding them helps you to figure out how to play any of the Nomadic tribes as effectively as possible.


II. Detailed Population Explanation
#1 Suggestion I can give to new Horse Lords players is to pillage the castles, cities, and temples to nothing. That creates an empty holding which will increase your population.

Each pillage destroys 4 buildings(this seems to have been reduced to 2), upgrades to buildings are counted as buildings


To explain the more complex mechanics of population I will just go through and explain all the modifiers you see if you hover over your Population and Manpower displays at the top right of the user interface, I will use a couple screenshots form my nomad game as examples.


Key
Definition
Symbol
explanation
(parenthesis)
numbers/names that change
[brackets]
multiply
*
divide
/


Population: [#]/[#] (explained in MAXIMUM POPULATION section)
Monthly Population Growth: [#] (explained in MONTHLY POPULATION GROWTH section)
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MAXIMUM POPULATION
Base: this is always 1250
Empty Holdings: Base (which is always 1250) * Empty Holdings (however many holdings you have with no buildings in them)
Manpower: - [#] (this # is however much your max manpower pool is)
MODIFIERS
Buildings in [Capital Province Name]: [%] (determined by buildings in capitol)
Buildings in [Capital Province Name: [#] (determined by buildings in capitol)
MONTHLY POPULATION GROWTH
Potential Population Growth: [#] (this is whatever the difference between the two numbers in the beginning Population section)
Monthly Population Growth Percentage: 1% (fairly certain this does not change)
Modifiers: [%] (this number multiplies by the 1% to determine how quickly your population increases each month)

I will use the numbers in my examples screen shot of population for this area.



462,348/536,155 is my population/max population. The difference between these two numbers is 73,807 which is my Potential Population Growth.

The modifiers in my capital increase population growth by 49% and the base is 1% so my population growth is (.01x.49) + .01 = .0149 of my potential, in percent form this is 1.49%.
.0149x73807=1,099.7243 rounded that is 1,099 which is my Monthly Population Growth.
III. Detailed Manpower Explanation
This section will follow the same format as the previous section and uses the same key for explaining information. Current Manpower is currently the only thing that effects horde/retinue size for nomads.

Manpower: [Current Manpower #/Maximum Manpower #] (Maximum is determined by the equation = Current Population * Base (see below)
Raised Manpower: [men in your standing armies #/if all your standing armies had max men #]
Unused Manpower: [#] (Current Manpower - Raised Manpower)
Monthly Manpower Growth: [#] (Potential Manpower Growth * 10% or .1)
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MAXIMUM MANPOWER:
Base: 0.25 (this number seems to be a constant unless you play a mod)
Current Population: [#] (Base * [your current population #])
Modifiers:
[Your Characters Name]: (This is either empty or has a +10% from the adventerur trait or has +25% from the adventerur trait and mercenary traditions)

MONTHLY MANPOWER GROWTH
Potential Manpower Growth: [maximum manpower # - current manpower #]
Monthly Manpower Growth Percentage: 10%


For example, of how you get the basic three numbers in manpower (max, current, growth) I'll use this pic



My max manpower is [my current population multiplied by the constant (.25)] [multiplied by 1.1 because of my adventurer trait]

462348 * .25 * [1.1] = 115587 * [1.1] = 12,714.57 rounded up it becomes 12,715 which is my current max manpower as you can see in the picture


My growth in manpower is determined by difference between my current manpower and my max manpower. The difference is currently 18,511, so I take that number and multiply by the constant of 10% or .1

18,511 * .1 = 1,851.1 rounded it is 1,851 which is my current manpower growth.

Future manpower is whatever your current manpower is, plus your manpower growth for the month. To figure out how much you will have next month (without figuring in if your armies are going to steal some manpower to replenish their men) take your current manpower # and add your monthly manpower growth #.

108,634 + 1,851 =110,485 will be my current manpower next month.
IV. Basic Explanation for How to Increase Manpower/Population
For those who came to this guide to just get some basic understanding of how the Nomadic mechanics work here is the section that shows what can increase and decrease population and manpower

MAX POPULATION is increased by
1. Empty Holdings
2. The Ox & Wagon and Ger Crafter buildings
------------------------- is decreased by
1. Manpower

POPOULATION GROWTH is increased by
1. Having a big difference between current population and maximum population
2. The Cattle Pens, Airag Producer, Shrine, Fishing Village buildings
---------------------------------- is decreased by
1. Having a smaller difference between current population and max population

MAX MANPOWER is increased by
1. This is just 25% of the current population, so increase your current population to increase this
2. Having the adventerur or mercenary traditions traits
------------------------ is decreased by
1. Your current population shrinks

MANPOWER GROWTH is increased by
1. Having a big difference between current manpower and maximum manpower
2. Have your Marshal "train warriors" in your capital province
------------------------------------- is decreased by
1. Having a smaller difference between current manpower and max manpower

Population Growth slows the closer you are to the max population so going from 20% of your max population to 40% of your max population will happen much faster than going from 80% of your max population to 90% of your max population.

Manpower Growth works similarly to population growth but you can't modify it through buildings or any other means besides modding, with the temporary exception of using your Marshal to "train warriors". This means it is hard to go from 80% to 90% of max manpower but if you lose a lot of manpower you will recover it fairly quickly.
V. Bonus Section: How Clan Vassals Work
Opinion and Clan Sentiment
Opinion does not really matter to Clan Vassals. Opinion still does matter if you take and Feudal or Iqta Vassals, but none of the clan leaders opinion of you really matters for their likelyhood to join factions. Clan Sentiment is what determines if the Clans will revolt or join your wars. I am just going to list the effects and causes of Clan Sentiment so that a new player can understand what is going on with each modifier.

Clan Sentiment Modifiers
-Needs More Grazing Land (explained in Population and Manpower)
-Clan Wants More Land (explained in Provinces and Holdings)
-Prestige (every 200 prestige you have this increases by 1 and does not seem to have a limit, this can be a malus if you don't have enough prestige)
-Buildings in [Capital Province Name] (determine by the building level of your Clan Gathering Hall)
-Same Faith/Wrong Faith (This is +10 or -10 depending on if both your clans have the same faith)
-[Name] is a councillor (This is -5 or +5 depending on if you appoint another Clan leader a councillor who is feuding or blood brothers with this Clan)
-Is not a Councillor (-10 opinion for Clan Leader not being on your council)
-Blood Brothers (+50 bonus for whoever you decided to be Blood Brothers with)
-Marriage Ties (+20 for having someone of your dynasty married to someone of their dynasty)
-Propaganda Effort (+20 for 5 years when you send your Chancellor to "Improve Clan Sentiment")
-Loyal Clan* (+40 bonus)
-Weakness (Increasing penalty based on how long it has been since the character has been in a war as the head of the current country, therefore you need to start a war soon after an heir comes to power)
-Won Tributary War (+20 bonus for 5 years, stacks)
-**

Provinces and Holdings
Clan Vassals only care about the number of provinces, not the number of empty holdings you have for determining the Clan Wants More Land malus to Clan Sentiment. This means that you can keep provinces that potentially have the most holdings to yourself and give out the provinces that only have a few holdings to your vassal clans. The penalty for having too many provinces begins when you have more than 33% of all provinces in your Khaganate, which means you could have 50% or more of the holdings but would need to keep less than 32% of the provinces to receivereceive no penalty to Clan Sentiment. Pillage your holdings to maximize your population, holdings with buildings in them are bad holdings for a nomad.

How to Parcel Out Holdings
This section needed to be added because the way you handle giving out newly conquered land is very different than was done previously under Feudal/Iqta. For clans you want them to be as even and spaced out as possible. Keep your clans at all about the same number of provinces which will keep them all at a similar population level. You also want to never give a clan more than one province in a duchy. The purpose of this is to prevent clans from ever being able to form duchies, which in turn will keep them from accumulating prestige automatically and being mad at you for having all the best land in their duchy. The picture below provides an example of a fairly good way to parcel out land as the Khaganate of Khazaria.




->The only real problem in this picture is that the Jabdertim Clan has enough land to form the Duchy of Sarkel. This was the land that was given to this character at the start of this game, all the other land is parceled out correctly. This also shows how you can keep the best provinces to yourself as I have almost 4x the population any other clan has.


Pillaging
This is a very different command from raiding or looting. You can do this to any province you control even in wartime, but it will give you less gold and destroy fewer buildings. If you only control the province and don't own it (because of war) then pillaging only destroys 1 building but still gives all the bonuses listed below. For pillaging when you do not own the province, such as during a war, the province receives a +10% revolt risk and that lasts 10 years. If you own and control the province it will destroy 2 (formerly 4) buildings and give somewhere between 10-50 gold along with a 33% chance to gain 10 points of any tech group. It creates two maluses on the province the shortest of the two is a "Recently burned the Land" modifier that lasts for about 5 months. This first malus gives +20% local revolt risk modifier, so if you are doing this to a lot of provinces prepare yourself for some rebellions. Another modifier called "Burned the Land" appears and lasts about 8 years from whenever you pillaged, these modifiers stack. The modifier lowers levy size by -20%, increases revolt risk by +5%, and lowers the local tax by -20%. For nomads the only one of these that really matters is the revolt risk modifier, but if you are going to settle down you should make sure to not pillage any provinces that you will be keeping in your newly tribal/feudal/republican country.





Population and Manpower
When Clan Vassals get close to around 80% of their maximum population (which you can see by hovering over their population in the clan tab) they will start to get a negative Clan Sentiment that increases the closer to their maximum population they get. Giving them lands clears a good amount of maximum population limit for them but declaring war on someone and then letting your vassals fight the war for you, losing many men in the process will lower their current population which will increase their Clan Sentiment towards you.

Giving out Provinces
If you want to stay nomadic you definitely need to be aware of what holdings you are giving our to Clans. Clans will switch to feudalism fairly quickly if you give them lots of Feudal holdings. To keep them from doing this you should pillage all the holdings you plan to keep as part of your Nomad territory. This pillaging gets to be a huge pain so instead of giving land to your clans give it to a distant family member (more distant than brother or son). This will give you a vassal who is already feudal but can never take control of the Khaganate and will get a +5 opinion bonus of you forever. I try to naturally stay around 25% of the provinces in the Khaganate so that when I take new land I can hold on to it and pillage it into nothingness before giving it to the other clans. If you are lose control of your Khaganate or you start as one of the lower Clans, it is important to know that you can not pillage land that you take in a war. I would sugggest only attacking other nomads unless you are the Khagan, or are about to become the Khagan





*not sure what causes this please let me know in the comments if you figure this out
**There are some other things, I believe on of which is having low martial skill but I never have the kid with low martial take over so I am not sure. Please post a screenshot in the comments or mention to me any things I missed in this list.
VI. Suggested Starts
This will section is a bit of an addendum for beginners and more advanced players for interesting starts. It will be in two sections the Beginner Section, then the Advanced Section


Beginner Starts

In 769
1. Khazaria - They are pretty large (20+ provinces). They have rich feudal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for raiding (Byzantium). They have a tributary for some extra gold and troops in a war (Alania). They also have 3 clans that are all your same religion and culture (allows you to understand clan mechanics before getting to large). They are Tengri which is the most simple religion for nomads (all Holy Sites are in nomadic lands)
2. Turkestan - Not as powerful as Khazaria, but they have rich feudal neighbors (Bajinid Satrapy). They only have one clan so if Khazarias 3 clans was to much you can figure things out with only one which is quite easy (become blood brothers immediately). They are also Tengri, but you will need to expand a bit faster than Khazaria or a larger nomad may surround you.
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In 867
1. Kirghiz - This is their era and would be a highly suggested start, if your vassals were Tengri. They have 2 tributaries (Khangai and Kimak). The Kirghiz Khagan is Tengri. They have the most land of anyone in the Steppe (Except Khazaria who has their own problems). They have only 2 clans, but the clans are the wrong religion (This is a good start to figure out how to absorb other clans). They are also next to many Feudal OPM in Tibet that can provide a lot of extra land and money.
2. Magyars - a very distant 2nd, but this is the start you would want to use to figure out how to convert from nomadism to feudalism.
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In 1066
*This start date is not really recommended because Cumania is very powerful in this start*
1. Mongolia - They have good religious bonuses (Buddhist), They only have 2 clans which are the same religion as the Khagan. They are in the corner of the map near the Tibetan feudals that are easy to pillage
2. Cumania - This country is easy if you know how to play decently because of its size, but it is hard to learn about all the mechanics if you start very large.

(For 1081 the suggestion from 1066 stays the same. After that date you get too close to when the Mongols come for any Nomad to really survive by way of anything besides chance)


If some of the Clan mechanics are overwhelming you, and you just want to get used to population and manpower first, you can start as one of the lower clans and not the Khagan. Unlike in Europe, no matter how large your Clan is, you will never have to deal with factions or opinions of vassals, that is until you become the Khan.


Advanced Starts

In 769
1. Uyghur - Zorastrians used to be pretty hard to play as because of the constant Sunni threat right on their doorstop. This start lets you take over a nomadic Manichean, which you can convert to Zorastrianism before creating any extra clans and then build up power in the Steppe until you begin an invasion of the Persian Empire. Even if the Abbasid Empire stuck together you can simply use your massive hordes to wipe out his armies before they can combine, then siege all the land in the Persian Empire, end the war, create Persian Empire title, and settle as feudal* with whatever land you want!

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In 867
1. The Mongols! - Only one Mongol state exists at this start date and that is the Nergui in the far east. The Mongols got a special decision in the Horse Lords DLC that allows them to become the Genghis Khan! It requires 35 counties and gives you a ton of prestige and the title Mongol Empire The Mongol Empire title unlike your previous Khaganate title, can absorb de jure kingdoms. Turn Tartaria and Russia into Titular titles while you expand across the Steppe with your very cool new Empire. This country is decently hard though because you start as a tributary to the Kirghiz and they will be expanding south to block you from taking the OPM feudals that you will need to pillage to beat the Kirghiz. You must expand quickly and start a war to end your tributary status. (This is the country I used to form the Mongol Empire in my screenshots)
2. Khazaria - The JEWS! This would be the start to use to expand in the Steppe as a jewish character and then at some point turn south to re-establish your religious head and found your Holy Order. This country lends itself well to becoming feudal* just like the Uyghur start.

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*When you become feudal you lose all your nomadic land and the most prestigious leader of your old clan leaders becomes Khagan. Keep this in mind before you settle down, you will be much less powerful for awhile.
72 Comments
Warlordnipple  [author] 27 Jan, 2021 @ 12:35pm 
@DSShadow to prevent having kids too young I would suggest marrying your children young so they already have kids by the time you die. There are no alliances as hordes so marrying early for genetic traits is the only thing that really matters.

Type of land is not important, the only thing that matters is how many empty holdings are in each province. The only time the type of land matter is when your capital is in the province and that is because the buildings it can build are special. That is why in my guide I saw to keep the land with the most empty holdings and give the 1, 2, or 3 empty holding provinces to the other clans.
DSShadow 27 Jan, 2021 @ 10:56am 
Very nice guide and helpful.
I Fail now the second time getting the Khan of Khans Achievment.
Every Time i Loose the Khagan, cos my Childs aren´t 16. Getting it Back is a pain in the ass, cost me many many lands, because this shitty minor clan revolt modifier raises revolt troops as hell and i am fighting the khagan and cant run for them all...

But i have a Question: Is the type of land important for the pop i get from free emtpy slots? Is a hill worth 1250 pop like steppe? Or should i better getting the hills i.e with buildings?

Thx
Asherett 8 Jun, 2020 @ 7:35am 
Also, some general tips on playing "true nomad" that you might consider including:

Martial is really the only stat that matters. Diplomacy doesn't really matter, because your vassals opinions doesn't really matter (clan sentiment does). Stewardship doesn't really matter, because you get the majority of your money from pillaging and ransoming/banishing prisoners, not from taxes. Intrigue can matter a bit at the start (to avoid getting assassinated), but once you've got the ball rolling it's unimportant. Learning doesn't matter much because you a lot of your tech from pillaging, not from normal tech'ing.

So give all your offspring struggle -> martial. Join the Eagle Warriors and invite all your kids. Make sure to send your best heir off as mercenaries, their high martial will make it likely they're successful.

Basically, once you have the clans on your side, Nomad is OP as h*eck, an unstoppable invasion machine.
Asherett 8 Jun, 2020 @ 7:11am 
I just have to say, this guide is fantastic! :steamhappy:

The "Loyal Clan" modifier is currently +20, and it comes when you create a new clan by splitting your own clan. It lasts for 100 years (!).

Also, when you split your own clan, the new clan will have the same religion as you, so getting the "Same Religion" Clan Sentiment.

To get rid of your largest clan, park your army on their capital and tell them to split their clan. They will (with all likelihood) revolt and you'll instantly win because you surprise attack them. Then absorb them at no penalty (because they're "treasonous" from revolting against you).

So, follow the above tip (split-defeat-absorb) to absorb the pre-existing clans one by one, and re-create new ones by splitting your own. You'll end up with basically perfectly stable realm where all the clans have super high sentiment (starting at base +30) which in turn will make all the clan heads love you (they'll also have your religion and culture, ofc).
Warlordnipple  [author] 15 Apr, 2020 @ 5:01pm 
@fastXst uh yea you should never have duchy titles unless your highest title is duchy as any government type.
fastXst 15 Apr, 2020 @ 12:04pm 
I have a lot of duchy titles. You suggest to destroy them?
Warlordnipple  [author] 9 Apr, 2020 @ 5:26pm 
@TheMemeDevil NP, the guide might be a little out of date since it was created when the DLC first came out but if you have any questions or need help send me a friend request and I can answer them.
TheMemeDevil 9 Apr, 2020 @ 3:00pm 
Thank you for the guide been meaning to play as a nomad for sometime, but was not sure how they worked. Then i found your guide, so thanks for the recommended starts and how they work.
Warlordnipple  [author] 5 Jan, 2019 @ 12:35pm 
@bendkok Yes, increasing max population is the fastest way to increase pop because the further away your current manpower is from max the faster it grows.

I suggest that you make sure the capital is on a place where it can take advantage of the specialty buildings (on the silk road next to a lake at the very least) to increase your gold output.

The building route you take kind of depends on what you are planning on doing later.

If you are going to take feudal land and give up your nomadic empire then the population growth buildings like shrines, cattle pens, and airag producers would be the way to go.

If you plan on staying nomadic for a long time the tech and loyalty increasing buildings, followed by increasing nomad tax buildings would be the way to go.
bendkok 5 Jan, 2019 @ 10:45am 
If you take the "Split clan" decision the new clan that appears will have the "Loyal Clan" bonus for some years. Not sure if it can appear any other way.

To me it seems like the quickest way to increase the population of your clan is to increase max population. Is this correct? Which buildings would you suggest building if I have fully upgraded the one that increases max population?