MINDNIGHT

MINDNIGHT

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Stop Accepting Everything!
Door francthemac
Hey there MINDNIGHT players!

Thank you for playing our game, that we know it’s both infuriating and fun at the same time.
But let’s go through some stuff so you keep your friends after playing this game.

I am kindly asking you to try to not accept all mission node proposals. You will see that this will greatly benefit you.
New players usually approve a node mission way too often. It's true, and it's normal. You are in the learning process.
   
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Be Smart
Approving on a node proposal you aren't on? Probably bad.
Approving right away on the first node proposal of the round late in the game (Node5), just because you're on it? Possibly game losing.

Look at the following example:

It is node 4. The hackers have hacked two mission nodes and the agents was successful in one. The hackers just need to get one hacker on a mission to win.

Players A, B and C are agents. X and Y are hackers.

Player X is proposing now and proposes a mission of X, A, and B. (If this mission occurs, X will hack and win the game). Players A and B have come to trust each other but do not know whether or not if A is a hacker or not.
People vote for the node mission.
The hackers, X and Y vote yes.
C is not on the node mission and knows it will fail (because since he is an Agent, there are only two other agents, so three other people in the node mission must include one hacker).
A is smart and votes no.
B is not so smart and votes yes. The mission occurs. X hacks the mission node. The hackers win.

What’s the lesson here?

Often in new player games you will see A and B BOTH voting yes here.
Now let’s look at what happens if A and B are both smart and vote no.

X and Y vote yes, ABC vote no, the proposal fails.

Why did Y vote yes? If he was an agent, voting yes on a 3-person mission that he is not part of guarantees that a hacker is on the mission, and thus guarantees a loss if it occurs. Therefore, he MUST be a HACKER.

Player Y was outing himself as a hacker to vote yes on this mission! Not only that, he was showing that the other hacker was ALSO on the mission.

In order to 'catch' him, players A and B need to BOTH vote no! If they do this, then they know:
  • Y is a hacker.
  • X, A, or B is the other hacker; therefore, C is an Agent.

That is a massive amount of information to have gained from a vote. You gain this information by voting against a node mission proposal.

It was a risk for Y to approve on that node mission, outing himself in the hope of winning immediately if A or B is an idiot.
How to test proposals
Often, especially late in the game, it is correct to make a series of 'test' proposals, trying to see if a hacker will out himself voting for it. You need to vote against it enough times, that if he does out himself, it is on a failed vote, not a successful one.

So, hackers have an incentive to 'act' like an agent by voting no on these missions. This opens up opportunities for double bluffs. Does a hacker vote yes on the mission that actually has three agent members, hoping enough of them they will vote no? They will then 'out' themselves to show that the other hacker is 'innocent' and thus get him onto the final and critical mission. When everyone is playing at an advanced level like this, the voting becomes extremely interesting.

Often, it is correct to propose the combination you THINK is the agents, vote it down, and then repropose it and vote yes. (Or even do two test proposals first). If everyone votes it down, there is a greater chance that it is correct! The hackers know if its correct or not, they know whether they want it to happen. Lots of yes votes in a critical situation means people are confident, which means it is more likely they are confident because they are hackers and they actually know for sure what is up.

Earlier votes are less critical, and the first one is fairly random. Its preferable to be on this first mission yourself of course, to increase the chance of success, but its less critical overall since time is left. You generally need to have a failure or two to set up 'one of X or Y is a hacker' scenarios in order to figure things out.
What happens when are two hackers on a mission?
It’s interesting when you get two hackers on a mission. Do they both hack and give away that they were BOTH there? That’s terrible. What they really want to do is get ONE hack.

Therefore, the following convention could help the hackers:
If two hackers are on a mission together, then if one of them was on a previous mission, he will use the same action he played in the earlier mission. (If he hacked before, he will hack again, and the new hacker should hide. If he hid before, he will hide again and the new hacker should hack). This avoids headbutting for the hackers, provided that one of them had been on a mission before.

Of course, once this becomes the convention, the meta-game, and you get those one-hack missions, you have to ask: are we sure that those two aren’t BOTH hackers, who coordinated effectively?

I hope this helps your play, and helps your group to reach a state of playing MINDNIGHT at a high skill level. It is very interesting and deep once you get past newbies acting erratically!
What should I do, hack or hide?
As a hacker, is it better to hack a mission that you are on (let’s say you are the only hacker on it), or is it to play safe and gain trust?

In general, the hack is a better result. Hiding is only useful if it gains you enough 'trust' from other players. However, as you go on future missions and they are all failing, that trust can erode quite quickly. This is especially true if people are pretty mistrustful of even a successful mission. In this case you almost certainly want to hide.

Whether the mission is large or small is a significant concern. Hiding on a 2-person mission (in 5 player), and then getting onto the 3-person mission as a result and hack it, can be pretty good. You give away more information by saying 'one of these two people is a hacker' than 'one of these three is a hacker'. So, it’s definitely better to hide in a 2-person mission than a 3-person mission. (And for higher player counts, increase these numbers to the appropriate levels).

However, if you ALWAYS hack every mission, then this will make you suspicious.

Therefore, it is really a game theory problem. hacking is the better result, but you need to hide enough that they don’t just suspect you all the time when a mission fails. If you hide too much, then hiding will not buy you much trust. ('Last time he was on the mission and it succeeded, but he was still a hacker, don’t trust him this time').

So, what is correct? Hide sometimes, but hack more often. Hacking pretty darn often is probably correct, but you have to mix in just enough hides. The less often you hide, the more effective it is when you do.

Hope this helps you see the in-depth mechanisms and elements that will turn your weird games, into awesome deduction fevers.

Cheers,
Franches
18 opmerkingen
󠀡󠀡 2 dec 2020 om 19:01 
no :)
beans on toast 19 mei 2019 om 19:46 
Love the guide! You should update the "What happens when are two hackers on a mission?" section to reflect the newest version of "protocol".
Zepy 15 jan 2019 om 10:08 
why acc out of node?
Benny 14 mei 2018 om 20:25 
I accept
Lek 12 apr 2018 om 19:07 
I get way to many newbies who win by getting lucky and ACCing everything and saying Refing is sus. THAT ISNT THE WAY THE GAME WORKS. STOP ACCEPTING EVERYTHING
FinetalPies 25 feb 2018 om 14:53 
There's also an achievement for never talking, which is also a bad strategy. I do really think the achievements should be reworked to promote GOOD play
thecheesyexperiment 19 jan 2018 om 14:58 
i actually got the achivement Passifist by accepting every proposal, suprisingly enough, it was my FIRST TIME PLAYING THE GAME!


amazing, no?
Xerxes 18 jan 2018 om 3:09 
I have been in games where hackers just follow the agents pattern and avoid detection. Hell I do that and have won quite a few. Playing a fixed formula can lose agents the game. Its easy to fake and gain trust so these formula's really mostly help hackers. Hence, my games are won on both formula and chat deduction(Alot of chat deduction). Never forget to play the mental game.
Sonorian 12 jan 2018 om 21:34 
It's an acheivement because it's difficult to pull off.
Rath9 6 jan 2018 om 22:26 
Heres my problem with this. If its against the rules to accept every node... then why is it an achievement to accept every node team and win the game? If its frowned upon i suggest removing the achievment